Old School North Dakota Diver‪s

Ramsey Russell: I’m your host, Ramsey Russell. Join me here to listen to those conversations. Welcome back to Duck Season Somewhere. I’m your host, Ramsey Russell. Double R, and as you all know, follow me on social media. What not, I’m right smack in the middle or just getting started on a North American waterfowl tour, road trip of epic proportion. I’ve hunted North Dakota several times. Let me ask you this, if I say North Dakota duck hunting, what do you think? Because prior to the day, that keyword phrase, conjured images of mallards and pin tails and Canada geese and snow geese just falling into dry fields. But there’s more of the story in North Dakota and elsewhere. And today I got to see a part of North Dakota that was completely off my radar that I’ve never really seen. Not only did we go out to a huge lake, I’m going to say somewhere between 60 and 75 acres of deep water. We targeted Drake Divers. That’s not always shot. We shot some puddle ducks too. In between conversations, we just want to go out and bag the limit, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. We’ve been done in 30-45 minutes. That’s not what we want to do, that’s not the point. We went out, we hunted over a substantial spread of old and new hand carved wooden decoys, canvasbacks, bufflehead, blue bills. And my two host they’re passionate, passionate old school type hunters, the altar traditions and stuff. But they’re also divers specialist. That’s their deal. Today’s guest is Jeff Pelayo. How are you, Jeff?
Jeff Pelayo: I’m good, Ramsey. Thank you for having me.
Ramsey Russell: Good. And I tell you. Was this morning pretty usual for you? Is that a pretty usual morning?
Jeff Pelayo: Yeah. I mean I hunt every day for a few hours because I can. And it’s hop, skip and a jump from the house.
Ramsey Russell: Well, yeah, it was a very tough morning getting to the blind. We got the truck, we pulled out of the driveway. Two minutes later we stopped the truck, walked 50 ft, stepped into a nice blind set up. And if I understood you to say, you leave your spread out, let’s, ice is going to risk it or something?
Jeff Pelayo: I do. Certain days I do pull it. And I’m always messing with it and changing things out, using wooden decoys. I try not to let them soak too long. So occasionally I do pull it.
Ramsey Russell: I don’t even know where to start with this interview, because you’re very very interesting person. I’ve kept up with you for years. I’ve known you as a biologist, as a decoy collector, as a species guy, as a dog trainer. And I don’t even know where to start. But I’m going to start with, let’s just say this morning spread, it’s pretty darn cold out here. It was not as cold as it forecast. But it was cold when I got here last night. You had said, y’all have pulled your rig, had it sitting in the truck so it could fall out. Why I mean?
Jeff Pelayo: Yeah, so yesterday Eric and I hunted in the morning and the water was getting pretty cold. So, there was getting a lot of ice buildup on the decoys, and you know, the ducks don’t like that. They’re really shiny and we could tell the birds were looking at the decoys a little funny. So yesterday, because of the wind was going to lay down as well, we decided to pull the spread, plopped them all in my truck and drove around for a few hours with the heat on. Yeah, melt all that ice off. And so, this morning, that’s when we redeployed them. Nice and clean. No ice. And that’s one of the reasons we did that.
Ramsey Russell: Why? However, I would go, why those kinds of wooden decoys? What inspired you to use those decoys with all these shiny new, fully fuzzed, hyper something, plastic decoys available to the duck hunter today? Why are you going back and using decoys like they did, 150 years ago?
Jeff Pelayo: You know, I’m a collector at heart and I love history. And it was only until recently, that I can actually afford wooden decoys. And so, years ago, I guess, maybe 6-7 years ago, I decided, I was going to do away with all plastics and hardened wooden decoys one. They last longer. I appreciate the art and it’s a really great way for me to support these decoy carvers. I buy decoys from a handful of carvers. One of them is Pat Gregory out of Illinois, Tom Martin out of Missouri, Marty Hansen out of Wisconsin. So, these decoys, a lot of collectors, a lot of folks, who do buy their decoys will put them on their shelves. To me, they’re working decoys. They’re meant to be on the water and to be gunned. And so, to me, to get scratches, dings and things like that. That’s part of the story of me using these birds here in prairie country. And all those scratches, dents, you name it, tell a story. And I hope someday, that someone wonders, where these birds were, what they decoyed, how many birds were killed over these decoys, things like that. Same with my guns. I have some pretty good condition auto five’s and I hunt them. You know, they get bumped and all that. But someday, with the rust and dings and wear, you know, that’s my story. And so I love tradition. And so that’s why I hunt over wooden decoys and I try to stay true to that, when I am hunting.
Ramsey Russell: Waterfowl has a lot of traditions, and I would argue, it has more traditions, especially the collectible side, more traditions than any other hunting sport that I’m aware of. You know, you got the decoys, you’ve got the cars. You can, I mean it’s a layout boats, the hunting styles, there’s all these different things. You talk about these decoys and the word that comes to mind is, functional art. Its decoys are functional art. And boy, if some of these decoys in your room here could talk some of the stories, they would tell me, I know some of them have a very long and sordid history. And what struck me, when I walk in and see these decoys is, most of them, not all of them, but most of them are halfway there and they have anchors because you used. They all get to go out and swim and it’s like behind the house. Some don’t they?
Jeff Pelayo: It’s also the, one of the only times we get to dust the shelves. Yes, we’re all out of the water. Honestly, it’s true.
Ramsey Russell: Tell me about the provenance in history of some of these decoys I’m looking at. I really like these ones that got the cool curved together to their neck.
Jeff Pelayo: Yeah. So, my collecting actually started out when I lived on the eastern shore of Maryland. I collected upper Chesapeake Bay decoys from a lot of the early makers. We’re talking makers from the 1800’s and early 1900’s. I kind of limited my collecting to those decoy makers / watermen. And over the years. Well, let me back up. I collected those for many years. And when I moved to the prairies of North Dakota 10 years ago now, I decided to reduce my collecting of old birds, but focus it on the delta marsh. I collect Duncan Ducharme Decoys from the delta marsh of Manitoba and also Tory word. Why? I have ties to the delta waterfowl, and I did research up there for my Master’s degree and decided, that’s where I was going to focus on collecting. Because those birds, these decoys mean something to me, being associated with delta waterfowl, as a delta grad student. So those are really the only old decoys I collect these days. Anything else I buy from contemporary makers, they go in my rigs and I hunt them.
Ramsey Russell: Tell me more about delta marsh and its history.
Jeff Pelayo: Yeah. Well, as far as the Delta Waterfowl and Wetlands Research Station, up on the Delta marsh in Manitoba. Delta, at that time I was there, did a lot of training of young budding waterfowl biologists. I was fortunate enough to get into the student program at Delta Waterfowl. And there’s a long history. Albert Hawke Bomb was an early scientific director there. And a lot of water fowling history as well, not just with the Delta station. But all the hunting that occurred on the Delta Marsh and all of that.
Ramsey Russell: Here’s what I’m asking is like, I know delta waterfowl, its origins with a research, waterfowl research. A lot of the most pre-eminent waterfowl biologist with any organization of God’s earth began back in the day with researching it at Delta water fowl. But Delta marsh had a more storied history than Delta waterfowl. Is that right? I mean it was like a fabled gunning ground.
Jeff Pelayo: It was, canvasbacks. Right? Another waterfall.
Ramsey Russell: Is that a big production area?
Jeff Pelayo: Yeah. The whole, all the prairies are, but they have good production on the delta marsh. Absolutely. For me, my research was conducted in Minnedosa of Manitoba pothole region. A lot of breeding canvasbacks there, ruddy ducks, bluebells, redheads, all those, a lot of those divers. So, and that was. let’s see that be west. That the southwestern Manitoba is where Minnedosa is.
Ramsey Russell: Wow. So that’s the place to go shoot canvasbacks. So that’s what it looks like. But now tell me what was Ducharmes relationship to delta marsh?
Jeff Pelayo: James Ford Bell, when he started hunting the delta marsh, he was bringing his decoys up across the states into Manitoba to hunt the Delta Marsh. Over time he needed more decoys. And so, he hired these watermen to start carving decoys for him. That’s basically in a nutshell of how that all got started with the Ducharme patterns of their decoys.
Ramsey Russell: Very unique.
Jeff Pelayo: Yes, very unique. I’ll tell you what, when you look at a Ducharme decoy canvasback on the water, it’s incredible. It mimics a silhouette of a canvasbacks to a teal. It’s a simple decoy, but when you see them on the water it’s incredible. You know for a simple decoy it’s pretty impressive.
Ramsey Russell: I noticed you’ve got several disarmed decoys among your extensive collection that are not rigged for hunting. How old are some of these decoys?
Jeff Pelayo: Some of them date to the 60s, 40s. You know, they’re not ancient by any means, but for that area, yeah, absolutely. Historic.
Ramsey Russell: Decoys from the 40s could tell stories. Can you imagine?
Jeff Pelayo: Absolutely. So, like the one I was showing you the other night that was in James Ford Bell’s D cleric. So, it’s pretty important and not to mention, it belonged to one of the early scientific directors Dr. Bruce Bat. And that’s exactly who I got the decoy from a few years ago. I mean, it was given to him by Peter Ward, who was associated with Delta and did a lot. Peter actually painted a lot of the Ducharme decoys for the Gaillard rig. And Peter was a great artist as well. So yeah, that is kind of the story of that particular decoy that you’re holding the other night.
Ramsey Russell: It’s incredible.
Jeff Pelayo: Yeah, amazing history.
Ramsey Russell: And what are some of these decoys like today? I noticed some Ducharme like decoys. We were hunting over. What is the story of the rig we were hunting over? Tell me more about the rig we were hunting over today.
Jeff Pelayo: So, my rig, like I said, is made up of just a handful of carvers. I want to limit the number of carvers that my rigs represent. So again, the majority of my decoys are made by Pat Gregory, who is a current decoy maker at Illinois. Pat makes a wonderful, durable, gunning decoy. Tom Martin as well, a friend of mine, out of Missouri makes a great gunning decoy. And as well, most people know Martyn Hansen, out of Wisconsin. Then, I have a handful of swans made by Michael Braun, out of New Jersey. And that pretty much covers the majority of that diver rig. So that’s my diver rig. Now I do have a puddle duck rig made up of a half dozen Ducharme’s that I purchased as body and heads together. Ducharme used to sell those birds unfinished to hunters, for them to paint at Kiehl’s etc. Now I found pin tails, wood ducks, green wing teal, blue wing teal and canvas backs. And what I did instead of keeping them in that unfinished condition, I actually sent them all to Pat Gregory and he finished them all for me. And now they’re part of my puddle duck rig.
Ramsey Russell: And you were saying Pat style and I can see it. Looking around, his style is very simple, very classical and it reflects a lot of that.
Jeff Pelayo: It does. And Pat is a lover of all delta history as well. And so, I couldn’t think of anyone better to have paint those birds, and they’re perfect. They’re perfect. They look like they belong. His paint belongs on those birds. And, not to mention, a lot of different folks did paint Ducharme decoys. So, simple paint patterns, right? Simple is good and simple belonged on Ducharme. Yeah, they’re wonderful. They’re wonderful. And Pat did an amazing job of painting those birds for me. Again, I gun them. They’re meant to be gunned.
Ramsey Russell: I agree with that. Tell me a little bit about the spread today. We had two panel blinds. You leave permanent. How did y’all set those decoys?
Jeff Pelayo: So, because of the wind condition that we had or lack of. And the low wind conditions, that cove, that was to the right of us, a lot of birds come out of that. So, given the wind condition, what we were hoping was by the decoy placement, we had that open part in the middle there that when they came out of that code, they would kind of come around that corner. Kind of slide right in, along that one long line that Eric put out, and that was pretty much what we’re striving for. And they did. Unfortunately, we didn’t see as many canvasbacks, redheads. The blue-bills kind of started to come later, you know when you left. We missed a few.
Ramsey Russell: I got my blue-bills.
Jeff Pelayo: You got yours. And those birds, that group of blue-billed came in really nice.
Ramsey Russell: Sure, it is. Just textbook [**00:19:38].
Jeff Pelayo: Beautiful.
Ramsey Russell: Well, you had that one particular line out to the right, which is if the wind was blowing at all, it would bend down wind, and it served as like a guiding line.
Jeff Pelayo: Pretty much.
Ramsey Russell: That’s when those blue bills that came in grabbed that line and followed and followed it.
Jeff Pelayo: Right into the main spread.
Ramsey Russell: Sure did.
Jeff Pelayo: Yeah, so Eric does that a lot. That was Eric’s long line. So, for me, when Eric’s not hunting with me or I don’t have access to his long line, I pretty much leave an open spot in the middle there. So folks in both blinds can get shooting right there in the middle. Now, as far as swan hunting goes, we had the swans on the right side. So, for myself and a couple of friends that shot swans, that blind had access to the swans. Better shooting lane for the swans. So today, because no one else had a swan tag, we kind of relocated them to the left side there.
Ramsey Russell: And still they came out of that cove you’re talking about and slid right across. If anybody had a swan tag, they were easy pickings.
Jeff Pelayo: Absolutely, yeah.
Ramsey Russell: So which side do you want to shoot?
Jeff Pelayo: It’s amazing. You know, we’ve been decoying swans now for eight years. It’s like clockwork. It works. Never fails. So, when friends come up to hunt, as long as they stay with me for good five days, they’re going to get their swans. It’s just a matter of time and being patient for those birds to come through.
Ramsey Russell: Waterfowl hunting is such a subjective sport among people among regions and stuff like that. And you know I told you today in a blind some of the species that we were targeting would be regarded as. And I hate to use this word. This is not my word. It’s just I’m just saying as a general, would be regarded as, quote trash ducks in some places. But take a blue bill back home in Mississippi, they are not the primary target. They’re not the creme de la creme species. Eric from Minnesota leak chose to eat up with blue bills. Yeah. I mean it’s their cultural heritage. It’s their bird, man. Yours too, apparently. But why for you do divers, why do those species, the bufflehead, the scaup, the canvasbacks? Which I love. The redhead? Why do divers especially speak to you? You’ve got all these opportunities. We saw bazillions of mallards over there to the east trading up into the grain fields and you’re blind, instead of, for divers.
Jeff Pelayo: I think it goes back to my early gunning, growing up. I hunted. I grew up in southern California and I hunted three hours east in the Imperial Valley. I did a lot of hunting on the Salton Sea, which is a really large Inland body of water in California. I also hunted the refuge there. So, I think, I really enjoyed hunting that bigger water and we always shot divers. We shot divers on that big water and there’s just something about being on bigger water that really appeals to me. The species too, you know, canvas back front and all, the tradition and lore surrounding that bird.
Ramsey Russell: Back in the market hunting days.
Jeff Pelayo: Yeah, absolutely, back in the market hunting days, you know the canvasbacks were the main table fare. So all of that history and tradition really appeals to me. Don’t get me wrong, I love all ducks. But I prefer the wing shooting of divers. It’s fast, it’s challenging, the way they come in, is amazing and very challenging. So I enjoy that. I hunt fields occasionally and enjoy mallard shoots and Canada’s and I really love snow geese hunting in the fields. But I think my first love would be hunting larger bodies of water for diving ducks.
Ramsey Russell: You talk about growing up the Imperial Valley in California. Can you talk, how did you get into duck hunting? I know, you told me a little bit about it last night. Tell me more about your origins in duck hunting.
Jeff Pelayo: Yeah. So, my pops was in the Navy. He hunted and fished and all us, all of the kids used to go with him. And being the second to the youngest, my older brothers would take me along on their trips. So any hunting trip, even before I was able to shoot my own gun for dove hunting, for instance, in the Imperial Valley, my brothers would let me be the bird boy. I would retrieve their doves. And so, until I was old enough to shoot my own gun. And I attribute my love for hunting to my brothers. They would take me hunting all the time. And it wasn’t just about shooting a gun and killing birds and rabbits and things like that. It was, going on the trip, my brother’s waking me up early and just that feeling of driving hours somewhere was exciting to me. And, those are the things I appreciate and those are the memories I have of my early childhood, was making these trips with my brothers. Pretending to be one of the guys, the big guys, right? Even though as a little kid, I was still part of the hunt. And I enjoyed that. So when my brother first bought me my first shotgun, that was amazing. He took me, we go every morning. We go every morning and hunt the hills behind our house in San Diego for rabbits, quail, doves. Did that for years. So, I had a really fun childhood growing up hunting in San Diego. Unfortunately, that area where I grew up, is no longer like that. It’s all malls and homes and you name it, all that habitat is gone now. But I enjoyed it and I’m really grateful, I got to experience all of that.
Ramsey Russell: Do you remember your first duck?
Jeff Pelayo: I sure do. I got a lot of people, made fun of all my brothers, made fun of me.
Ramsey Russell: What was it?
Jeff Pelayo: It was a spoony. A drake spoony, beautiful drake spoony. And I admit, I thought it was a mallard and they laughed at me. But still, a beautiful duck. But believe it or not, yes, Northern Shoveler was my first duck I ever shot. And it was right then and there, that I told myself that I wanted to study ducks. And that’s kind of what I went on to do over the years.
Ramsey Russell: Well, you told me that story last night, you said on the walk out, you’re holding that duck and you told your brothers you were going to be a biologist. How old were you?
Jeff Pelayo: 13-14, right in there. But before that, I think I told you, I had a really big interest in snakes and wanted to be a herpetologist. So that changed after my first duck hunt. And so, I’m 51 now and it’s been a wonderful ride. I’ve done nothing that had nothing to do. Everything I’ve done in my life to this day has been decoys, ducks, dogs. Well, let’s talk more about it.
Ramsey Russell: I know everybody listening wants to hear. You became a biologist. Where did it start? Do you get out of high school then? What?
Jeff Pelayo: Yeah, I actually attended a junior college for a little bit in San Diego and then transferred to Humboldt State University in Northern California and pursued a wildlife degree. Graduated my wildlife degree. And then took a Master’s position at the University of Saskatchewan in Saskatoon. So finished there, after that I did some work for ducks, unlimited. But during that time.
Ramsey Russell: What was your phases?
Jeff Pelayo: I looked at egg size and survival and ready ducks. So, in a nutshell, did ducklings from larger eggs survived better. And I did a cross fostering experiment to look at that. It’s an important question. And I was able to perform an experiment with ruddy ducks. To me, they were the best waterfowl species to be able to do the experiment I had conducted. And yeah, that’s what I did at Minnedosa.
Ramsey Russell: And you left grad school and went to work for doing research with Delta?
Jeff Pelayo: Yeah. I did my research on ruddy ducks. Also, before that, was a grad student assistant, two others that were doing master’s projects and our PhDs. So, prior to my main research, I had done some preliminary work on some marking methods that I wanted to use on ruddy ducks. And I did all that at the Delta waterfowl and wetlands research station, when it existed.
Ramsey Russell: What kind of marking methods there are?
Jeff Pelayo: There are a form of nasal marker. We weren’t able to use sort of the standard nasal saddles or nasal markers that are used in other waterfowl. So, I had to develop my own marking method to be used on ruddy ducks. And that’s what I did. There are color markers. That it was basically a wire that went through their nares and had different colors, shapes, plastic shapes.
Ramsey Russell: I’ve seen those. Yeah, I’m actually in those in use like blue bills.
Jeff Pelayo: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I had to test my method out. So, I did a behavior study, captured some birds, marked them, and basically watched their behaviors. And what I wanted to make sure was, that it wasn’t obstructing other things that they want to do. Their feeding, were they resting a lot? All those things. So in order to be used safely. So that’s what I did. My marking method worked out properly. And that’s after that, I started my study at Minnedosa.
Ramsey Russell: So, when y’all put those nasal markers on those divers and birds, is that, so they can be observed through binoculars? And
Jeff Pelayo: Yeah, we use spotting scopes. And the reason we have color markers on waterfowl is to identify individuals, right? So, if we capture an individual, we know it’s sex, we have measurements taken on the bird. Wait. And we can identify them again, when we cite them again with a spotting scope or binoculars, as long as we have those shapes properly recorded what we’re seeing, we know who that individual is, right? It’s their unique color marker on those birds. So, on geese, like black brant, we have torso bands with unique alphanumeric codes and those identified individuals. For brant, when they’re on the flats, you can read their legs for that torso band on their legs, right? So same with goose callers, that same thing. They’re identifying individuals. So, when biologists, scientists, put these markers on these birds, you know, we’re following them for the
Ramsey Russell: Putting those torso bands so you can go out there and shoot them and put around my landlord, y’all are actually doing something with them.
Jeff Pelayo: Absolutely.
Ramsey Russell: How did you end up? You did some real interesting research to me up in Alaska. How did that come about?
Jeff Pelayo: Yeah. So, I worked at the USGS Alaska Science Center for a few years, and I did a lot of work at Eisenbach Lagoon, Cold Bay along the Alaska Peninsula. I really became fascinated with the stella cidre’s that wintered there and molted there. So, I came up with a project to, a pilot project to look at winter movements of these birds in Eisenbach lagoon. And so, we captured birds using MS netting on Eisenbach and applied subcutaneous radio transmitters, and then we set up remote telemetry locations to track them. So, that’s kind of what I did there. And it only lasted a few months. I had heard after I had left USGS that they had picked up the study again. I’m not exactly sure, how far they got into it, but I am aware that they did continue the study.
Ramsey Russell: What did you learn?
Jeff Pelayo: At my point, it was not a whole lot. As far as really for the pilot study I was doing, we wanted to see can we capture them? And we did. We didn’t have a huge sample size. How are they when we mark them in the winter, can we track them with those remote locations that we used? We did. And so, my guess is, from what we saw, we needed more locations, we needed more units out there tracking these birds. So again, it was a pilot study just to see and check out some of these techniques that we wanted to use. To really track their movements within Eisenbach Lagoon and did they cross over the Kindorf Lagoon. So that’s kind of what we wanted to look at and we captured birds at Kindorf mark them. But our locations which was a hand of small, just a few I think it was. We had three or four locations on Eisenbach that we had remote telemetry stations to pick up these birds, if they were moving back and forth. So, I’m going to guess, they increase those units to track those birds. I’m sure, in order to get better, much better information on those birds moving, we needed more units at the time. So, but again, it was a pilot study, just to kind of check things out. That’s kind of what I did. Not to mention, I worked on several studies with black brant down there.
Ramsey Russell: Like what?
Jeff Pelayo: I was part of a study, it was a master study that wanted to look at body condition of black brant that were wintering there and birds that went to Mexico. And so, we collected a bunch of black brant in order to assess body condition. So, myself and Jeff Wisely, who you know, had the wonderful duty of being able to basically collecting black brant on Eisenbach and Kindorf lagoon. And Jeff didn’t do the fun part, I did. Which was, go to Fairbanks and grind them up and all that fun stuff. But basically, they want to look at birds that were wintering on Eisenbach. Were they in good condition? Were they in better body condition? Were they able to stay there and withstand the winter there in Eisenbach versus the birds that went to Mexico?
Ramsey Russell: But since you brought that up, but I didn’t see this topic coming. But I know, increasingly, a lot of black brant, pacific brant I call them, have been overwintering on Eisenbach lagoon, which is, to my recollection, the world’s largest eelgrass bed from which they have a strong affinity. Is that why they’re staying there because of that habitat? Is it something weather conditions going on?
Jeff Pelayo: You know, some of the thoughts were, these birds are in better body condition, they can withstand the winter, they have the food source and then what, it’s a hot skip and a jump back to the Y.K. Delta to breed. They don’t need to make that long trip. So, I haven’t kept up with what’s going on over the years. I’m looking forward to going back to Eisenbach to hunt and all that. But you know, the person you really need to talk to is Chris Nicholas.
Ramsey Russell: I will, I’m going to talk to him tomorrow.
Jeff Pelayo So, he will be able to do all the ins and outs. That’s what I’ve heard.
Ramsey Russell: Where did you make the jump? Because it’s going to look y’all, hang on boys, this is going to make a full circle here. How did you make the jump from that kind of research in over remote areas? Doing real biology stuff? Real waterfowl biology. Just like you could only have dreamed when you were a little boy, out to the eastern coast, and become a heck of antiquities waterfowl shop. I mean, that was a heck of a shop you had. I mean, that was a heck of a collection. Not just decoys, but decoys and a whole lot of cool stuff I see, sitting around here.
Jeff Pelayo: Well, Essentially, I left Alaska, ended up moving to Alberta. And let’s just say, I ended up back in the U.S and headed to the eastern shore of Maryland. Why? I had friends there. And I was already collecting decoys and artifacts from the Chesapeake Bay region. So that’s what I did. I went to the Chesapeake Bay, and I had an online decoy store at that time. And really, at that time it was really selling decoys to other collectors and basically buying other decoys. I did a lot of selling decoys, buying new decoys and it was just kind of my side hobby. I love decoys.
Ramsey Russell: But it turn into something. You were talking about doing x rays and stuff with some of these decoys. What’s up with that?
Jeff Pelayo: Yeah. You know I learned very early, as a collector, that you have to be careful.
Ramsey Russell: Few shysters are there?
Jeff Pelayo: Well yeah, you have to be careful with what you’re buying and know what you’re buying.
Ramsey Russell: They’re like getting in the world of antiques.
Jeff Pelayo: Absolutely. It’s in everything right? You have to be smart about what you’re getting into, what you’re buying, what you’re not.
Ramsey Russell: We’re not talking $70 a dozen decoys here.
Jeff Pelayo: No, we’re talking decoys in thousands, some of them. And so, if you wanted to play the game and be a collector, you had to be a knowledgeable collector. So I decided very early on that. I was going to, you know, something very common for me was to be a student to do research on decoys and know my stuff.
Ramsey Russell: That biology started. Kind of biologist started coming out in.
Jeff Pelayo: Absolutely. And that’s what I did. I was a student and that’s kind of what I wanted to do was educate new collectors on what to look out for. Basically, letting young collectors know that, you need to be a student of decoys if you want to play this game, otherwise you can be in for a world of hurt later.
Ramsey Russell: Or have just endless amounts of money to waste.
Jeff Pelayo: Absolutely. And there are collectors like that, right? And they don’t care. So, but for me, I wanted to make good decisions based on my research of decoys and understanding the different carvers and their styles. And not just the carvers, but their paint. Is it old paint? Is it new paint? Is it repainted, and doesn’t have the original head? So for birds on the Chesapeake Bay, they were used really hard. And you know what? They replace heads all the time. So, now we replaced head on a gunning decoy, done back in the late 1800s, early 1900s. Wonderful, it’s a gunning decoy. But what happened over the years, where they’re shysters out there putting new heads on old bodies and vice versa. Some of these guys actually carve the heads, so they’re putting heads on old bodies. And to me, that’s not right. You know, it’s one thing, to get a true head replacement from back in the day. But currently, they’re doing nothing but spoiling the history of these decoys and that stuff is flooding the market. So you have to know what you’re buying.
Ramsey Russell: Like nails you’re saying?
Jeff Pelayo: Yeah. So, decoys made in the 1800’s, early 1900’s have square cut nails. So, one of the methods I used to look at what I had, is it the real deal, not only to look at repairs, as well as through X rays, X-raying a decoy. So, I was fortunate enough to have in Maryland, my vet collected decoys. So, every time I got a decoy I wanted to buy, I would check it out first. I’d say, can you x-ray this for me? And so that’s what I would do. I’d study the X-rays and you can see repairs done to a head, done to a body. You can see if that’s the real head, one through the nails. But also, the original nails that were in there, would have been rusting. So, what you can see in the body of the decoy are these tracks, where the nail was. That rust shows up and it glows. So that’s one way, and there’s no nail in it. So, you know that has been off. You see what I’m saying. It shows those nail tracks are empty. There’s no old nail in there. There’s new nails to replace that.
Ramsey Russell: You must have been pretty darn savvy art dealer?
Jeff Pelayo: I did. Yeah, that was my goal. Like I said, was to educate folks and what they should be looking for. Looking out for maybe not the most popular thing. People wanted to see, but decoy collecting is a fun hobby. As long as you know what you’re getting into, if you’re collecting vintage decoys. So, people who didn’t want to deal with that, collected contemporary decoys and that’s an amazing art. You know, these guys are so talented and that’s where I am today. I collect more contemporary decoys to hunt over versus, I really only collect decoys from the Delta Marsh
Ramsey Russell: According to the age of these decoys, it’s deal connects you to pass times. I mean, it’s still a very fundamental hunting style to take these contemporary works of art and put them on the water. Not just gently place them. You use them just like an old gunner would throw them out and let them soak up a little water. If you start to get a little what you bring them out, let them drop going back out there.
Jeff Pelayo: Yeah. You know, like I said, getting dense and nicks and wear on a decoy or my guns, I’m okay with. Those are marks from my use. You know those decoys and the guns will be my story.
Ramsey Russell: Flocks, buffle-heads came whipping around that cove around that corner into the decoys, divers typically come in low. And the first volley today, the one thing that crossed my mind is, Lord, don’t let me shoot. This may take all.
Jeff Pelayo: It happens. You know, they get peppered. Decoys get peppered. I don’t purposely try to shoot my decoys, but it happens. And if you’re going to use wooden decoys, you can’t cry.
Ramsey Russell: A wooden decoy is not going to sink.
Jeff Pelayo: It’s not going to sink. And if you’re using Boss loads, that shot is not going to rest.
Ramsey Russell: And you do shoot Boss. I mean, you’re a big Boss proponent.
Jeff Pelayo: Boss. Oh, I’ve been shooting it for two years and it kills. Boss kills. And I’ve hunted divers out here for eight years and I’ll tell you what, lots of cripples and how many steel shells I use on a cripple to dispatch it? A lot. What’s really nice about Boss is that is greatly reduced. I’m a believer in Boss, is a great company, makes a great product backed by great people.
Ramsey Russell: I agree with that. And as we talked about this morning in the blind, lead like patterning, the lead like killing efficiency over old school decoys, it just kind of goes hand in hand.
Jeff Pelayo: Yeah. I’m able to shoot my old Belgian auto five’s and from 12’s, 16’s, in my 20’s and it’s great. I mean, old guns, lead like shells, hand carved decoys. I’m kind of living my own little world of the past when I’m hunting.
Ramsey Russell: I’ve been duck hunting for 35 or 40 years and every time I get around guys our age, it is funny how there’s been a trajectory of stages and phases since we were young. Phases we’ve gone through any decoy, heavy straps, any species, maker piles whatever to where we are now. Like I said previously, if we want to just go out and shoot a bunch of ducks, we would have been back here drinking coffee 30 minutes later but we actually sat out there for hours, we enjoyed stories, we talked, we told, we laughed, we kidded, we passed a million green wings and then shot a few and then wait. We’re still waiting on those birds, we’re out there to hunt. I’m trying to think like, have you seen any changes or what’s changed? What do you see, is maybe being different, that you would wish on some of these younger hunters? Just something for them to consider. And I think everybody’s got to go through their step. I don’t think anybody where they are, should hurry to do something different. It’s a natural process. But you get what I’m saying, there’s this big chasm and it seems to me, I can remember being some of these kids in social media. But now I feel like old fuddy, duddy granddaddy going on.
Jeff Pelayo: Yeah. You know for me, don’t get me wrong, early water fowling days was about limits. But I also love to ship beautiful drakes. That’s always been a part of me. Some people just want to kill, I get it. But even as when I was young, I wanted to shoot beautiful birds. I held out a lot even then. But for me, I think the transition is you go from that stage and wanting limits, getting done fast, making a giant pile, things like that too. Today, where I’m really picky about the birds I’m shooting, I want to shoot beautiful birds, I want to shoot divers. And I’m hunting with dogs now. A lot. Hunting with a well-trained retriever raises water fowling to a new level. And I hope other people will get a dog, get trained dogs, have a trained dog because it really is special. And for me, even though some days I will hold out for those divers, I also have to remember my partners are waiting to retrieve. So, I have to be fair to my dogs too and get them work because that’s what I train them to do. But for me, growing up with my brothers and all of that, all of those feelings and memories of the process, not just the killing, it’s the process of water fowling. It’s a process of all of that. And when you share that with good people, it’s so much, it’s more than the killing. It’s why I do it. Good conversation with good people, people who appreciate how you’re hunting. You know today, we weren’t just blasting at everything. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve had people over, that were like that. That’s their game. Okay, that’s not mine. So today, it was really wonderful to hunt three of us who appreciated everything that was going on. You know a duck went by. Okay, it went by. It happens. And we’re not worried about stepping out of the blind to take a picture of our dogs, coming in with a duck while other ducks are flying over. You know, we weren’t rushing to get back in the blind like there was no tomorrow. You know those are the memories I want to capture.
Ramsey Russell: What happens is we have come home with fewer than six ducks a piece. Big deal.
Jeff Pelayo: Exactly.
Ramsey Russell: And so, we got to enjoy the dogs were retrieved. We got to enjoy the beautiful decoys. We’ve got to enjoy some nice stories with each other and we still got our ducks.
Jeff Pelayo: Yeah, we still got ducks in. I think as you get older, that is a natural progression to enjoy more of everything. And I hope some of the younger water fowlers today will really stop and enjoy more than just the killing. You know, being with your friends and it’s okay to not pile them up today, pick your shots. Just be a better hunter overall.
Ramsey Russell: You know, one of the key words you are driving home, is the word ‘beautiful’. Yeah. You know, a lot of those species like yourself, I just, there’s a myriad of duck species throughout the United States and definitely the world, they’re all beautiful. They are. You know, your wife’s attack in terms and one of her favorite ducks we’re talking about today is a Hen Shoveler. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Jeff Pelayo: She loves them.
Ramsey Russell: Beyond the actual birds a retriever doing what he’s born to do, it’s beautiful to watch a retriever launch off into the water, which is cold today and go out and get that bird and come back and delivered a hand. Is a great shot. It’s beautiful. A clean kill is beautiful. The sunrise this morning, the sun was back behind the clouds and everything was just slate grey over the water. That, your Ducharme like decoys floating to silhouette was just beautiful. You know, the whole, the tradition. I know y’all getting up resetting those decoys a certain way, that’s got a sense of beauty, and of itself is the perfectly executed plan that the whole process is beautiful and we’ve got to learn to accept duck hunting for what it is and what it ain’t, depending on how the duck, God let the ducks play that day.
Jeff Pelayo: Yeah, absolutely.
Ramsey Russell: Because it’s all good.
Jeff Pelayo: Its hunting, and we cannot predict what’s going to happen from day to day. One thing that I’ve found amazing hunting every day, even though sometimes it’s just for a short period of time, is, being able to see the first, to be able to watch the migration happen.
Ramsey Russell: Oh, yeah. Well, y’all had some birds show up with this cold front. I’m sure you were saying today a lot of these birds and not just y’all had some birds show up with this cold front.
Jeff Pelayo: That’s right.
Ramsey Russell: I guess there were new swan today, or no?
Jeff Pelayo: I think so. Yeah, those birds, you can tell they’re coming down, they wanted water, right? And then there are others that you can see, they just kind of went by.
Ramsey Russell: Jeff’s a retriever trainer, in case you can’t tell. That’s a dog’s crashing in the background, it’s just getting comfortable. This is duck camp. Bear with us. It’s okay. I can hear for your mic up a little closer and your voice will be louder and we’ll be Okay. This is Duck camp. That’s good.
Jeff Pelayo: You know, what was really neat today was that large group of swans coming down so you know, there might be incredible. They came down, they wanted down, they wanted water. So, it looked like a great place for them to stop. Yes, they saw a handful of our wooden swan decoys, good enough to pull. Gosh, what was there? 20 birds in that, at least? That was a beautiful sight to see them come down on the water, right in front of us. And that alone, even if we didn’t fire a shot, was worth. It was an amazing show.
Ramsey Russell: I didn’t get drawn for a tag this year. None of us in the blind had a tag or they had been filled and so we were all just kind of iPhone video and these massive swans coming into the decoys. I put it in social media and I got so much engagement in the Instagram stories. Everybody found it beautiful.
Jeff Pelayo: Yeah. A lot of people I believe, that, do apply for tags and get tags. You know they’re trying to shoot swans but by chance, that one flies over. When I moved here eight years ago, I was like, we’re going to decoy those birds and you know what? It worked.
Ramsey Russell: Oh, they decoyed.
Jeff Pelayo: It works.
Ramsey Russell: Talk a little bit about that because they don’t need a massive spread.
Jeff Pelayo: You don’t. I’ve hunted from four decoys to eight decoys. And today, we only had four birds out and you saw what, it decoyed. You know what one of my swans is out of commission, so I had to pull one. But we had five out originally. I took my swan last week, Jackie did, Eric did, a couple buddies. So today, they were free to come in and land and we got the video and how many people get to see that. That’s amazing.
Ramsey Russell: No. It really, truly is. And I encourage everybody to apply for swan permit, try to go swan hunting. There are now nine states in the U. S, you can hunt swans in. Its largest North American waterfowl species and they’re absolutely beautiful. As we found out tonight with your waterfowl curry recipe, we’re all famous that they’re very good to eat. Really did enjoy that. You know, you’ve accomplished a lot since you were 13-14 years old walking out with your first lover. You set out to be a biologist. You’ve done some amazing research, you’ve gotten into the world of collectible decoys to the X ray level. That’s all very interesting. It’s all culminated now in your early 50s. You’re hunting over these very traditional decoys bread. Focusing, elevating it to a whole another level by focusing on drake divers over a wooden decoys bread, shooting old guns, wearing clothes that harken the good old days. And I found that all very amazing. But you told me this story last night about your mom and dad were Filipino. You’re Filipino. Your brother’s a Filipino. I’ve never known it talking to you, you talk like California. You know, you don’t have an accent.
Jeff Pelayo: People say that.
Ramsey Russell: Were there any impediments or obstacles or difficulty to doing that, as compared to something else? I mean, what did you? You obviously didn’t let it be a deterrence, but did you ever perceive a boss or like, you had to jump over a higher hurdle to accomplish all this?
Jeff Pelayo: I was pretty headstrong as a kid, and I kind of still out. I do what I want to do, whether it’s accepted or not. Being Filipino, how many Filipino waterfowl biologists are there? Or how many Filipinos hunt? You know, most of them are nurses. That’s the big joke. But for me, I was fortunate. My pops hunted fish, took us fishing and crabbing as a kids. All my brothers and my sister and I, we grew up in the outdoors. And my brother’s love to shoot guns and kill things. And I just believe I’m just, I was blessed to be able to have an upbringing like that. In a place where we were able to shoot guns and hunt and being exposed to waterfowl hunting through my brothers. I just think I was, I mean, if we’re in the typical traditional Filipino family, I wouldn’t be sitting here talking to you.
Ramsey Russell: But your dad. Your dad was in the Navy, in the U.S Navy. Y’all came to America.
Jeff Pelayo: Yeah. And I was born in Bremerton Washington, right when he was stationed there.
Ramsey Russell: But as a culture, y’all just assimilated into the fabric of America.
Jeff Pelayo: Yeah. My dad did. And you know, when my dad retired from the Navy, he ended up being a mail carrier. And my dad wanted all his kids to grew up in the American way.
Ramsey Russell: Live the American dream.
Jeff Pelayo: That’s right. He didn’t push the Filipino language on any of us. I don’t understand anything. I understand when my parents were pissed at me. That is it. That’s pretty much the extent of it. Otherwise, my parents are very fluent in English as well, but when they want to talk about the kids they’re speaking in Filipino.
Ramsey Russell: Jeff. How can everyone listening to, connect to you in social media? You take a lot of pictures, everything we’ve talked about, you depicted on your timeline. How do people connect to you?
Jeff Pelayo: So, I’m on Instagram as A.W.A water fowling and gundogs as well. On Facebook, I have my personal page and I also have two Facebook pages, A.W.A gundogs, A.W.A water fowling.
Ramsey Russell: But A.W.A water fowling, because I got a few inbox that day when I tagged you. You’re not a commercial outfitter. No, I’m not an outfitter at all. What is A.W.A?
Jeff Pelayo: A.W.A. is my brand. And I came up with this name because you know, all the things, I’ve done in in waterfowl over the years from being a biologist to being a serious water Fowler to collecting decoys and being a historian of all decoys and dogs. I named A.W.A. It stands for “Another day Wing shooting Adventures”. So obviously, another day you know, comes from me being a waterfowl biologist. North American ducks, geese and swans. And so that’s kind of how I came up with the name. And I shortened it to A.W.A water fowling. People occasionally will ask me what it is. Everyone always asks me if I’m an outfitter and I’m not I’m not an outfitter. A.W.A is a way for people to follow my adventures, not just water fowling adventures but my lifestyle, my water fowling lifestyle that I live 365 days a year. And so that’s my brand. And I’m not an outfitter. So, when you see me hunting every day with people, their friends, my friends hunt with me, I hunt a lot. So yes, it may look like I’m an outfitter but I’m clearly not an outfitter or a guide. We hunt here on the fire manly and A.W.A is, I feel like I’ve come full circle from growing up hunting and all the other things I’ve done in the water fowl world to now, and where does it come back to you? Hunting? So, I really feel like my life at 51 now, has comfortable circle. And so, now I train dogs and I hunt. I hunt as much as I can and that’s my life these days. And I still have as much passion for water fowling and everything. Water fowling as I did, when I was young and it’s never left and it’s an amazing thing. And so, I hope the youngsters of today look past the killing, and taking enjoyment of so many other things and, and learn about history of water fowling because it’s so fascinating to learn what was used in the past, how, from clothing to guns to, all of that, to methods of killing waterfowl. All that stuff is really fascinating and some of the stuff today is. You look at sync boxes back in the day that market hunters used. Well, we use layout boats today and they’re low in the water. Right? So, there’s still some similarities with modern water fowling versus techniques of the past. So, it’s fast. All of it’s fascinating to me. I don’t, it never gets old, it never gets off.
Ramsey Russell: Folks, Y’all been listening to my buddy, Jeff Pelayo up here in North Dakota. Enjoy duck hunting for what it is and what it ain’t. Find beauty in every bit of it, from setting your decoys to a perfect shot, to just dealing, dealing the hand the duck, God’s deal that day. Just find joy, find beauty. It’s such a wonderful sport. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Duck Season Somewhere.