EP 371. Full Steam Ahead: Making Ducks or Geese Happen

A Goose Hunt Like No Other

Ramsey Russell: Last year when I was up here hunting with you, you showed me that old pro guide trip and I never really, we did that video and you were showing me how to tell a goose feed is fresh.

Nick Johnson: Yeah.

Ramsey Russell: Is it the taste or the texture that matters? Is it the taste or the texture of goose?

Nick Johnson: You’re looking for moisture content. You’re looking for acidity. You’re looking for bitter overtones.

Ramsey Russell: Okay, that’s what does it, right? That bitter overtone.

Nick Johnson: That bitter overtone. Yeah. You want that okie backdrop with maybe a fruity finish.

Ramsey Russell: Okay, folks, welcome back to Duck Season Somewhere where today I’m at Prairie Limits Outfitters in Saskatchewan. It is magic up here shooting snow geese. Today’s guest, my buddy, Nick Johnson. I should say world famous Nick Johnson, because everywhere hardly I’ve been in the last twelve months, the people at goose hunt know him. I don’t know how they know him. We’ll find out. And last year, we played a stunt we did sitting around the house and I don’t know how we came up with it. Probably involved beer. But the next morning, we did a little Instagram thing and I’m going to kick this episode off this way. Nick, what was the reaction? I almost regretted tagging you in that and putting you on that video up, because as it evolved, there was a lot of reaction to that little video we did. I thought it was hilarious.

Nick Johnson: I thought it was hilarious too. And we should say what it was. Well, first of all, hey, man, thank you very much for having me on your podcast. You were asking me before what podcast I listened to. And man, you are knocking it out of the park with these podcasts lately. It has been great listening. You’ve had some of the best topical guests. So, yeah, thank you very much for having me on. And the video that we’re discussing is actually originated from a joke that another guide who works up here at Prairie Limits, Josh Wright, he said, if you were guaranteed to have 100 bird shoot, would you eat a fresh goose turd? And so, we’re joking around about it. But then I came in the lodge and I was like, we could maybe make a video where we eat a fresh goose turd and it would probably get some sort of a reaction on social media. And I came in the lodge and Miss Donna, one of our great cooks here at Prairie Limits Outfitters, Miss Donna had some of these brown cookies, these chocolate brownie cookies. And if you sprinkled a little bit of powdered sugar over them, man, they look just like a goose turd. And I thought, boy, this would be funny. And I think you overheard me talking to Miss Donna and then all of a sudden, the meeting of the minds happened and all of a sudden, we’re sitting there laughing and giggling over the table and we said, we got to make a video about us eating a fresh goose turd.

Ramsey Russell: Well, the thing about is. So we roll them out and get them just that little j shape kind of looks, right? Roll them in that powdered sugar, take them out in a bag. Next morning, after all the decor is set up, everything’s in place, sun’s gently coming up. And when you looked at them in that video on the ground, it looked just like goose crap.

Nick Johnson: Oh, it looked just like it.

Ramsey Russell: What if we’d accidentally walked up to the wrong one, that you had tasted it. And I put it up, and I thought, a great little reel it’d be funny because people take stuff too seriously, number one. And because people believe everything to see on it. You know what? If you see two guys eating goose shit on the Internet and you try that, it’s on you, not me.

Nick Johnson: Yeah, exactly. Right.

Ramsey Russell: But it almost kind of hurt my feelings. Now, it did not hurt my feelings, but it’s like, God, man, some of these folks jumped on there and just Brand X Camo or Brand X Shotgun or God the hate, man. The things people will say over this. Can you not tell this is a joke?

Nick Johnson: Yeah. And maybe they just.

Ramsey Russell: Maybe they went out. Maybe they went and tasted it themselves and got mad.

Nick Johnson: Exactly. But no, that video got a really good reaction on Instagram. And that was a fun video to make. And I’m not opposed to being silly on the Internet and being a little bit of a punching bag. It’s all part of the fun of kind of being in the public eye in the waterfowl tight knit community.

Ramsey Russell: Nick, I’ve just learned none of us need to take ourselves too seriously.

Nick Johnson: No.

Ramsey Russell: And the people that do take themselves too seriously on the Internet otherwise. Don’t. Just don’t. Life’s too short to take yourself that seriously.

Nick Johnson: Right, absolutely.

Ramsey Russell: I thought it was hilarious. But I got to say, I hadn’t talked to you since then hardly. So yesterday, we were tailgate riding in, going to goose hunt for snows and I actually said, are you cool with that? I mean, you ain’t mad at me for putting that up now?

Nick Johnson: No, absolutely not. No.

A Serious Canada Goose Guy

So, once you get bit by that waterfowl bug, you just want to see what the world can offer.

Ramsey Russell: I did pull a fastball. We were supposed to bite into it. When you offered it to me, I said, no, I got to dip in. But anyway, Nick, I love coming up here to Prairie Limits Outfitter. How long have you been here guiding?

Nick Johnson: I’ve been guiding here since last fall.

Ramsey Russell: Okay, so that was your last year was your first year?

Nick Johnson: My first year. I’ve got experience, like doing guiding work. When I was 18, I graduated high school. I got a job in an aluminum foundry. I worked there for 17 years. I’m 36 now. So, I just had a career change and moved into the guiding industry full time.

Ramsey Russell: I did not know that. This is full time job for you. You don’t have an offseason job, like farming or whatever some of these guys are doing?

Nick Johnson: Not yet. I’m planning on doing some work this summer, getting a seasonal job this summer, because this is actually my first summer not working in the aluminum foundry. I quit there last summer and then I began working at Prairie Limits Outfitters. Came up here August 27 for my first day of work, showed up, started scouting. But I do have experience guiding. I’ve worked for quite a few different outfitters. I put myself out there. I have experience ever since I was 13, competitive calling. I’ve been in the industry. I got my chops. I mean, going back to when I was 15, my dad would drop me off to help guides out in Minnesota. So, I was working with guides when my dad was dropping me off for quote, unquote work. So, then I did a bunch of that in my teen years. I hooked up with Phil Schmidt guiding at Goose Busters Guide Service in Minnesota. I’d do that every single weekend with him. I was his weekend guy and then I would put myself out there as a fill in guy or a short notice guide. I just messaged different outfitters because I had a pretty flexible vacation schedule with my job at the foundry. They’re pretty good at letting me go on a short notice. And I did a lot of different work at a lot of different outfitters in quite a few different states through my 20s and early 30s and decided to make it my full time career this last year.

Ramsey Russell: I was surprised to see you here this spring. It never crossed my mind you would be here this spring. I’ll tell you why. Because I associate you with Canada geese. A guide and his guide and I get it. But I associate you as a Canada goose guy because you’re a serious Canada goose guy.

Nick Johnson: Serious, serious Canada goose guy.

Ramsey Russell: I Mean, I’ve spent a long time in Canada and several stops along the way people knew you. And of course, the waterfowl community is such a small world anyway. But golly, you get around, dude.

Nick Johnson: I’d love to get around. And you love to get around. And we know that part of the romance and part of the fascination with waterfowl is the migration aspect. And we have so many different settings in which we can actually enjoy this sport. So, once you get bit by that waterfowl bug, you just want to see what the world can offer. I don’t think anybody knows that better than you.

Ramsey Russell: You see a lot more the Canada goose hunting world in North America than I do, I feel like. And you’ve taken it to a whole another level for reason we’ll talk about later. But let’s back up and talk about, you grew up in Minnesota like Minneapolis St. Paul?

Nick Johnson: Yep. I grew up in the New Brighton Fridley area, so New Brighton was my hometown as a kid, so I grew up in the suburbs, so I didn’t have my dad’s farm where I hunted a lot. So all the stuff that I did, I really had to travel, branch out freelance, like be a true freelancer my whole life.

Ramsey Russell: Well, you’ve been doing it since you were 13.

Nick Johnson: 13 is when, I got bitten by the bug when I was 11 my dad took me on a goose hunt. I think it was one of the first years. I’m 36 now. It’s one of the first years they actually had that September Canada goose season.

Ramsey Russell: Oh God, yeah, that’s been a long time.

Nick Johnson: My dad is a casual, average Joe hunter. He was back in his day and took me out and we went to just the duck slew, him and his buddies always hunted with or hunted on opening morning of duck hunting and we actually shot one Canada goose that day. And from the moment that thing-

Ramsey Russell: Big old splash on the water.

Nick Johnson: Soon as that thing splashed, it was over for me. I think a lot of people have an origin story just like that. But when it comes to a problem of mine is once I get a hobby, man, I can’t stop with that hobby.

Ramsey Russell: I get tunnel vision myself too. So, from 11 years old, 13, when you got really bitten by the bug and started taking it next level. But was your dad still involved? He was still hunting buddy?

Nick Johnson: He truly encouraged me through the whole process. Because as growing up as like a suburban kid, a city kid, what am I going to do to put myself in a position to actually have good hunts? And for me, that avenue was calling, duck calling, goose calling, getting good at it. I thought that would put me in a position to get as many opportunities to waterfowl hunt in my life as possible. And I think I hit the nail on the head on that one. Nothing really has enhanced my hunting career as just grinding on those calls, getting good at it because it’s going to introduce you to so many great people, whether that’s in the competitive calling circuit and even just on a smaller level, like within your friend circuit. Hey, if your friends go scouting and they find a good spot, guess who gets the phone call? It’s the guy who’s good on a duck and a goose call.

Ramsey Russell: Do you still remember your first goose or the first goose you ever called in and killed yourself?

Nick Johnson: Oh 100%, yeah. I was 13 years old and it was on that same slew my dad took me to when I was 11, called in some geese and I shot two of them that day. And I’m not a big guy now, I’m only 5’7. But when I was 13, I was tiny and I was holding two giant honkers next to that slew. My dad sent the photo into the outdoor news and there was me, big old picture in the outdoor news. Those geese were dragging, their feet were dragging on the ground in the photo. I’m wearing all my military surplus camouflage that my dad bought for me.

Ramsey Russell: Back in the day.

Nick Johnson: Back in the day. And then from that, 14 years old is when you can first hunt by yourself. And then I was starting to go out. My dad would drop me off and I’d do solo hunts by myself starting at age 14. I’m a big solo hunter too, to this day.

Ramsey Russell: And I’ve noticed that. But at 14 or 15 years old, were you that kid that the old guys let do the column because you were better? That’s what I figured.

Nick Johnson: Yeah. And the obsession with calls continues to this day. I’ve got a goose call that I’ve worked on with Pacific Calls, the Nick Johnson Signature Series. And yeah, it couldn’t have worked out better for me, choosing calling as my entry avenue into the industry.

Ramsey Russell: Your dad and his buddies, weekend warrior types, regular Joe types, like a lot of waterfowlers. That’s cool. I can see where they influenced your getting into hunting, but who were like your, as you grew older, started getting a driver’s license, doing your stuff, who influenced your hunting more to think in a really big world and who influenced your calling? And how did that progress?

Nick Johnson: There used to be an organization in Minnesota called the Minnesota Duck and Goose Callers association, and they would put on all the calling. And me and my dad would go to the monthly meetings every month and then.

Ramsey Russell: Was he doing that just to be a dad? Kind of like a dad thing?

Nick Johnson: Yeah. And of course, he was a benefactor of these.

Ramsey Russell: Okay, yeah. Right.

Introduction to the Waterfowl Hunting Community

I’m sitting there, I got the whole basement filled up with airbrush supplies. Just totally changed my world was the Tim grounds, the Jeff Foyles. Those guys were.

Nick Johnson: And we’re both having fun we’re both meeting people. Not the industry, but in the community, the waterfowl hunting community. We’re meeting people. There’s a gentleman by the name of Paul England. He used to make Paul’s Calls out of Minnesota. And Paul, me and my dad would go over to Paul’s shop. We would watch VHS tapes of the World Duck Calling Championships, whether that was like the 1999, 2000. Paul used to keep every VHS he would get from Stuttgart. And then in that really formative years, that 13-14 years old, that’s when waterfowl hunting videos really started to become big. So, you had guys like Phil Robertson. I burnt out maybe two copies of the Duckmen 4: Straight Powder. And as far as when I was first getting going, it was ducks, ducks. But what really moved me into being a big Canada goose guy, biggest influence, I would have to say would be that video Full Moon Fever by Tim Grounds. I was just trying to be whoever was in that video. They had some guys in there, Marcus Fletcher and Corey Hamric were in that video and they were out in Oregon, Washington, shooting Canada geese in September and we’re talking like 15-20 bird rainouts. I saw that, it changed my world. They had this brand new thing that they were showing this Marcus and Corey. These guys started hardcore decoy companies after this video. They were showing these new things that they were doing. Flocking goose decoy heads, blew my mind. They were airbrushing their bigfoots to look more realistic. Flash forward about 12 months. I’m sitting there, I got the whole basement filled up with airbrush supplies. Just totally changed my world was the Tim grounds, the Jeff Foyles. Those guys were. I just wanted to be them.

Ramsey Russell: You’ve named so far. They are absolute killers. They hunted, but they’re also call makers.

Nick Johnson: That’s true. Yeah.

Ramsey Russell: Tim Grounds is legend in the goose calling world. All of them are. And then duck commander of course, the duck calls. And what’s surprised me today while you’re eating your sandwich for lunch is I know you as a goose hunter. I think of you as a goose hunter, but you’ve called competitively while you were younger doing duck calls. Which was it, ducks or geese back when you were a kid or was it both?

Competitive Duck Calling

And what I honestly learned is that teaching a goose call is a lot different game than blowing a goose call.

Nick Johnson: It was both. But I got really into competitive duck calling, and I still love competitive duck calling main street style. It’s a beautiful art form that will enhance anybody’s waterfowl lifestyle. You’ll meet the coolest people at these events and have a great time doing it. But one thing that why I’m known as a goose guy is because I did fall in love with Canada goose hunting, mostly because of the calling aspect, because it’s so interactive. And then in my later years, I mentioned Goose Busters Guide Service. One time, we’re out there hunting, and Phil, who owned Goose Busters, was telling me he was advertising on Craigslist. He was advertising on Craigslist to do goose calling lessons and he was making some money on the side doing some goose calling lessons with people. And I thought, well, hell, I’m a pretty darn good goose caller. I think I might be able to advertise on Craigslist and do the same darn thing. And then I started having people coming over to my house doing one on one goose calling lessons. And what I honestly learned is that teaching a goose call is a lot different game than blowing a goose call.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah, it is.

Nick Johnson: And that kind of started a whole passion with me, with actually teaching people. My first couple of lessons, I actually had people pay me to do, let’s just say maybe they didn’t get their money’s worth. And I did not feel good about it. And I said, all right, being a good goose caller.

Ramsey Russell: They didn’t get their money’s worth because of the teacher or the student.

Nick Johnson: The teacher. So, I mean, I think, well, I’m a good goose caller. I can teach it, right? Not exactly. So that really lit a fire under me. I’m like, I got to learn how to teach this stuff. And that ended up starting this huge passion I had with actually working one on one with people and I developed this whole system about learning how to goose call, which I think really adds to my influences in that arena as well. People like Scott Threinen, who by that time had already come out with his Bad Grammar series, and I’m working with people who have already watched Bad Grammar and they need something more. And I feel like I was starting to add to that arena and I was getting better and I ended up. I don’t know how many people I’ve actually done one on one lessons with, but it’s probably over 500 people.

Ramsey Russell: Wow. Sign me up. I need some goose pointers. And I say I need some pointers because I got your call and for some reason it’s broken. It did not sound nothing like when you call.

Nick Johnson: Well, we can definitely get that fixed. And it’s just a way to connect with people, to help people, because at the end of the day I consider myself to be a hunter’s advocate. I want people out there to go out there. This is such a cutthroat competitive industry, but I really consider myself to be an advocate for everybody. I want everybody out there to go duck hunting, go goose hunting, have good hunts, have a good experience and then show that to their friends. This is sport. We both know that this sport’s been kind of declining, I think a 50% decline in license sales since the 1970s. If there’s anyway, I can do any small part to keep that alive, we lose hunters, we lose our representation in government. People don’t start caring about our issues. It’s a downhill spiral.

The Joy of Achieving Waterfowling Dreams

 If I can do any small part to help a community and a lifestyle that I feel like has made me the person I am and brought me so much enjoyment into my life, I think that’s my mission in my life.

Ramsey Russell: They become city folks, disconnected from what we need to be, what really matters, if we’re going to continue this thing, if we’re going to continue to have skies full of ducks, if they don’t learn to hunt. And I think, really, when they don’t learn to hunt young. That’s what matters. That’s when it somehow becomes a lifelong passion.

Nick Johnson: Helping people achieve their waterfowl dreams and waterfowl goals and sharing it. If I can do any small part to help a community and a lifestyle that I feel like has made me the person I am and brought me so much enjoyment into my life, I think that’s my mission in my life. I’m an advocate for everybody. I’ve put out a lot of content that is just trying to help people.

Ramsey Russell: Have you always been so shy and introverted?

Nick Johnson: Yeah, absolutely.

Ramsey Russell: Golly, I don’t know that you’ve ever met a stranger. You’re very outgoing. I mean, you’re cut out for this industry, I’ll tell you that.

Nick Johnson: It doesn’t matter what background you have, what your political leanings are, whatever. If you are addicted to locked wings then we have common grounds and we’re instant friends.

Ramsey Russell: So, growing up in Minnesota and I get the goose hunting culture, man. I get the duck hunting culture. How can you not have a waterfowl hunting culture with 10,000 lakes? But at the same time, when did it take to a new level? You’re just a regular guy. You’re working a job, shift job or whatever you’re doing. When did it take like, this level to where, there’s a whole lot of country out here I want to go see. Was it those video, come back to those videos, Tim Grounds traveling around or Jeff Foyles traveling around? Or was it just. Because you’ve taken it to a level, you’ve really gotten around doing this stuff and like you said, you do a lot of solo hunts.

Nick Johnson: Yeah, and solo trips, like we were talking about. There’s so many sets and settings that you can actually enjoy this sport. You kind of start to get addicted to it and you want to experience all of it. I think I purchased your Mazatlán couples hunt and I think that was 2017. I want to say February. So, I mean, back to then and before that, just the traveling, the trying to do it.

Ramsey Russell: But you bought that hunt to go to Mazatlán with your bride. But I think that’s a very rare experience that you did a guided hunt. Most of the stuff you do is freelance on your own networking, and oftentimes solo hunting. And I keep up with you in social media. What I see is it’s not about jumping out and getting your limit, five, six, four, whatever the limit is. You’ll invest a lot of time in decoys and perfecting like this. Art targeting bands, maybe just waiting it out.

Nick Johnson: Yep. I do a lot of band targeting trips and a lot of just hunting trips. And I’ll tell you what too. You got to have the courage to fail. Because a lot of these trips where I’ve gone freelancing, hell, there’s one time I remember hooking up my trailer. I drove to Nebraska for three days and then I drove home. I didn’t even go hunting. You got to have the courage to go out there and fail. I’ve taken many band hunting trips, came home with no bands. And what you do is you build a knowledge of, is this worth going again? But I get just this little kernel of an idea in my head and then you get excited about it and you’re like, well, how would I make that trip happen? Well, okay, well, let’s read all the regulations. If anybody wants to know how to make a freelance trip work, I got a couple of secrets in my book.

Ramsey Russell: Tell me right now, because that’s what I was leading up to is, I think a lot of people I talk to, a lot of people I’m friends with in social media and abroad, they’re very comfortable in their little corner of the world and you don’t have to go buy a getducks hunt. I mean, we’re in North America. We’re in the United States. Canada’s right across the border easy to get to. It’s within driving distance. It ain’t got to be halfway across the country. It can be just a couple of states over. But it’s dawning you’re made to feel that if I’m not an expert, if I fail, if I can’t post a bunch of pictures. But I tell people all the time, it’s like Arkansas. Some of the best flooded timber, very crowded, is on public land in Arkansas.

Nick Johnson: Yeah.

The Best Public Waterfowl Hunting Grounds in the United States

And a lot of states have very, very robust public access to private land programs.

Ramsey Russell: And the only way you’re going to find those holes and figure it out and get to it, beat everybody to it, is freaking invest your time. You’re young. Get out there and fight it out. If you think, and we got a whole country full of stuff that you can do that with. And so that’s exactly what I was leading up with, is what does Nick Johnson suggest to people listening of just goddamn pack a truck and go, here’s how.

Nick Johnson: Best way to do it. First of all, recognize that 49 states, with the exception of Hawaii, 49 states, all have fantastic waterfowling for some species at some time. So, the best way to actually parse out, figure out what you’re interested in, but go to these states DNR or wildlife department websites. There is a treasure trove of information on there. People think that Internet scouting involves going around on Instagram and social media and see who’s killing what where. Dude, just go to those websites. What you’re looking at is, I mean, there’s some states that have public hunting land. Let’s just say California is a good example of this.

Ramsey Russell: That’s a good example.

Nick Johnson: California’s got these fantastic public hunting grounds. And not only do they do like, waterfowl surveys on these lands, but they also do hunter success on some of these public lands as well. So you can actually look at dates like they’ll have like this week, this week going through the season, each week of the season, how many ducks got shot and by how many hunters. And so, you can see the success rate on some of these California public hunting grounds. And you can see like, well, sure seems like this week in January has great success on some of these public hunting grounds. That’s huge. And if you just go to any state wildlife DNR type website and start going to their, go to their waterfowl page, you’re going to find surveys on there. Waterfowl surveys. So there’s this many ducks in this place at this time. Bump up to your onX Maps. That $99 subscription for that year long, the full country, that’s going to give you.

Ramsey Russell: You cheaper than a guided hunt.

Nick Johnson: Yeah, and I’m not talking about a lot of people use on X Maps just to find private landowners. Actually, if you know, there’s so many birds in an area at some time, because you’re looking at surveys on a DNR website, transfer that over to OnX, be like, well, what is there for punting options around in that area, public or otherwise? And a lot of states have very, very robust public access to private land programs. You’re going to find all that on the websites as well. A lot of times with like, success rates on it or if you can find another secret that I use is eBird, ebird.org.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah. Where the birders are out there looking.

Nick Johnson: The birders are out there. I’ve got 270,000 scouters out for me every single day on eBird.

Ramsey Russell: Never thought about that.

Nick Johnson: So, if I’m looking at Kansas, which has a lot of public access to private lands, like walk in only type access. Okay, well, I can look-

Ramsey Russell: We have program.

Governmental Efforts to Expand Hunting Access

This is a huge point for the government that they’re actually expanding access because it’s the number one thing that hunters find as a boundary to their success is access.

Nick Johnson: Yeah. Stuff like that. Lots of states have different names for it, but it’s all the same and they’re expanding it. This is a huge point for the government that they’re actually expanding access because it’s the number one thing that hunters find as a boundary to their success is access. So, if you just look on eBird, you can narrow it down to just November, just mallards and you can look at an area and see the reports. Now, if a birder isn’t out to count them, then you don’t know they’re there. But that’s where the DNR can come in there too and give you surveys and all sorts of different tools that you can use to really open your mind up to the idea. And I never take a solo freelance trip unless I am pretty darn sure that there’s some public land, I can get access to. Number one, I had mentioned before how I drove to Nebraska three days and then I drove home. That ain’t happening again. I learned my lesson. So, if I’m taking a trip somewhere to chase something, I better be damn sure that there’s at least a public spot. Look, I’m going hunting.

Ramsey Russell: You got at least one point on the map, you know, that you can go hunt.

Nick Johnson: Yeah. There’s a little cluster, like in this area. Heck, there’s 7, 8, 12, 20 fields I can hunt. And they’re all up against this river or in this area. That’s a historically good waterfowl hunting area. New York, the Finger Lakes region. Heck, they got 60, 70 public fields just in the Finger Lakes region. You can find all of that on the New York DNR website.

Ramsey Russell: Wow.

Nick Johnson: If you just kind of dissect it a little bit and you got a crazy kernel of an idea in your head. Expand on it. First place you want to go is check these DNR websites. It’s a big country, like you’re saying and there’s a lot of opportunities. National Wildlife Refuges. The last two administrations, the Trump administration and the Biden administration, are in this time of hyperpolarization. This is one thing where the politicians agree on is getting more people out in the outdoors and that is a benefit to us right now.

A Target on Canada Geese

Ramsey Russell: When you do these trips, are you targeting geese or ducks?

Nick Johnson: Now, I’m partial to the Canada geese.

Ramsey Russell: Okay. Big Canadas, I think.

Nick Johnson: Big Canadas and part of the reason too, is for that also. And little Canadas, actually. But-

Ramsey Russell: they’re a Lot different critter than those big B-52s.

Nick Johnson: Yes.

Ramsey Russell: Even I know that.

Nick Johnson: Yes, I know. I lost my train of thought. I was thinking of cacklers, thinking of cackling geese and Canada geese.

Ramsey Russell: How can you not think of cacklers?

Nick Johnson: Oh, man.

Ramsey Russell: Well, they’re piling in up here right now. They are as dumb as a brick. I’m like, please be this dumb when I see you this fall.

Nick Johnson: For real. Those things, they know their seasons close. This wildlife is smarter than we give them credit for.

Ramsey Russell: I think so, I’d ask you, ducks or geese, you’re partial to big geese. So, when you travel and do these trips, because most of the times your name has come up in my last year’s loop was geese.

Nick Johnson: Yeah, I’ve traveled all over, east to west, chasing geese.

Ramsey Russell: So, where all have you been?

Nick Johnson: Oh, boy.

Ramsey Russell: Have you been from the Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific?

Nick Johnson: I haven’t quite been to the Atlantic Ocean, but I did hunt cackling geese on the Pacific Ocean like literally on the beach of the Pacific Ocean a couple times. Hunting those Aleutians, trying to chase those little blue neck collars. I got one. And then, what were we talking about here?

Ramsey Russell: Traveling.

Nick Johnson: We were talking when you said if the number is what’s important to you, then you’re not in it for the right reasons. Right? So, first year I hunted out chasing on the Pacific Ocean, chasing those little blue collars. Boy, do we have a fantastic hunt. I was with Brad Cochran, a co-owner of Dave Smith decoys. Just a fantastic hunt. The second year I go out there, same exact timing. There was 13 geese in that area. And I know that because I sat up on the Pacific Ocean and those birds would come into my decoys every morning and I’d sit with them all day long.

Ramsey Russell: Really?

Nick Johnson: Why shoot one? I mean, it’s the only geese in the entire area,

Ramsey Russell: And you shoot one to probably all leaves.

Nick Johnson: Yeah, I just kind of had a beach party with 13 little Aleutians for a couple of days. So, I did kind of want to get to that point that I had just mentioned too about when you take a trip, what is your caliber of success and enjoyment? Because we were kind of having that discussion before we started this. We have this podcast because you had mentioned that at Prairie Limits here, we got a bunch of guys in camp from all over the country and all over the world, really, because it’s Canadians here and Americans and you were saying that nobody’s talking about how many birds they killed. There ain’t no numbers getting thrown around camp because everybody’s having a great time.

Ensuring It’s a Productive Hunt

And we do a really good job of providing a great experience for people here at Prairie Limits, which is like, one of the reasons that I love working here, because we don’t have pissed off people. 

Ramsey Russell: That’s a very good way of looking at it, I used to ask, we send out pre trips and back when we really sent out pre trips to everybody, now I just talk to them or text them or something like that. But we used to have just like this formal trip and what I realized is, if you just ask, is your hunt successful? You get different answers, but you don’t really know why was it successful? And so, we started asking, was your hunt successful? Was your hunt productive? Was your hunt enjoyable? Now you start getting an idea of what’s what. We were talking about here at Prairie Limits is I fell asleep the first night I got here I was exhausted and ate a great dinner. Of course, the sun doesn’t go down till 10:00 so it’s late past my bedtime by the time it gets dark. And as I went to sleep, there was a table out there. Just final finals. A lot of the tables are cleared out, going to bed, some guys sitting there bannering around and chatting. I just fell asleep thinking, man, this is a hunting lodge, commercial hunting lodge. But it feels like a camp. And when you come in, I’ve noticed all the times I’ve been here, which three or four times I’ve been here now, nobody in that dining room gets into specific numbers. It’s like, how’d you all do? I’ll read it greater. It was okay. But everybody’s happy, because some days are better than others, especially when you’re chasing whitey out here. So, I’m going to tell you what, these guys are humble anybody, but that to me, it’s like, if numbers are the end all, be all. Here’s what I’ve learned 20 years traveling around the camp like this. If the topic at that dinner table out there is down to the numbers. You might be dealing with a guy, that all he’s about is numbers. But usually what I see is when it gets down to absolute numbers and measuring contest, that’s the metric of success or enjoyment of their experience here which tells me that everything else is failing. Okay, you can go sleep under a picnic table and eat canned beanie weenies and a lot of guys if they’re killing a bunch of birds, they may not ever come back, but they’re happy. But when it’s just regular hunting, then it changes. That’s when everything else has got to be. And that, to me, what separates good operators like the ones on us hunt list versus this is an overall experience. Control the controllables.

Nick Johnson: Yes, exactly.

Ramsey Russell: And I don’t think hardly anybody does it better than Brian and Ben. I mean, really and truly, there’s a lot of good outfitters out there. I’m not saying that, but they’ve really put together a great team.

Nick Johnson: Absolutely. So, if you’re rounded out you should be able to go on trips. And for whatever reason dude, the weather doesn’t work out, the birds switch fields, that stuff happens a lot. To the best, most planned out hunts. Bad stuff happens. You can’t have your enjoyment of your trip on that. And we do a really good job of providing a great experience for people here at Prairie Limits, which is like, one of the reasons that I love working here, because we don’t have pissed off people. If some of those uncontrollables happen and a guy, the hunt doesn’t turn out the way that any of us expected it to, we don’t have angry people over at the dinner table because the full rounded experience has been fulfilled. And to tie that back into freelance hunting as well, if you’re going on a freelance trip to kill, expect to have a bad time.

Ramsey Russell: That’s right.

Nick Johnson: So, another thing that I’ve been doing to insulate myself from that, because I’ve learned now over the years taking so many freelance trips is, sometimes I’ve bought maybe a hotel that was out of my price range and had a cool hotel and a good breakfast. If I know I’m going to a specific area, look up some hiking trails, look up some local landmarks, look up some things that you can do while you’re there or stop in the gas station, say, hey, is there any good sandwich shops around here? I’m not from this area. Is there anything I got to try? Like, oh, go try Billy’s sub sandwiches over on whatever avenue. Stuff like that builds the memories and the experiences that will ensure your happiness with a trip that is irrelevant of the success of the hunt.

Ramsey Russell: You hunt a lot of public. And I do too and I just believe public because of the competitiveness of it, the nature of really, you’ve got to play an absolute full steam ahead 100% smart game to get the spot, to outcompete the other group. I really think it makes you a better hunter.

Nick Johnson: I do too.

Ramsey Russell: I think having to operate at that high level competitively makes you a better. You talk about California, man, I’ve never, ever seen people work as hard as California puppet land. Those refuge rats, man, those sons of guns are just getting that gear a mile back into the marsh. Yeah, and they’re not just carrying three decoy, throwing out hope for the best buddy. They’re bringing the game.

Nick Johnson: And those public lands lot of times-

Ramsey Russell: They’re in some kind of dang shape because they got to get it there before everybody else. It’s a level of dedication that I would put a California public land hunter up against just about anybody anywhere in terms of getting to the spot and playing that game. I just would haven’t been out there. It’s an experience. But I’d say that about public land everywhere. I mean, you got to get up early, you got to go long, you got to go hard, you got to call, you got to hide. Everything’s got to be right and the birds got to be there.

How to Maximize Duck Hunting Success on Migration Days

I love hunting the migration and I love not having to ask for permission. That’s why I love public land.

Nick Johnson: Another good strategy, too, if you’re a public land hunter, which once I started getting older, I love hunting the migration and I love not having to ask for permission. That’s why I love public land. Any good public piece of land, especially in Minnesota, which is a flyover state, at any good migration day, it’s liable to be a good hunt on any public land you get to. But one saying I like to remind people of is there’s a five out of seven chance that a good migration day happens on a weekday. Five out of seven days are weekdays. If you want to pursue public land, find some way to work it into your schedule to where that Monday to Friday might become available to you in some way, shape or form. Whether that’s morning, whether that’s afternoon. Heck, I think I even just heard on your podcast, I think you were talking to a guy talking about hunting public land, but he would go out later, like halfway through the season. He would start at like 10:00 in the morning. That’s a great strategy for having success on public land. Have some sort of strategy, like, is there any way I could get out there on a Monday through a Friday? Is there any weather apps or any migration knowledge that I can absorb that will help me be there when it happens? And how can I be there when it happens? And there’s great things to be had on public land in this country.

Ramsey Russell: How has your travel and your intensity for hunting ducks, but especially geese, on all these different places. How has it affected or improved your ability to be a great guide at a place like this? Because it’s your first real legit full time guiding job, right?

Nick Johnson: Yes.

The King of Waterfowl Hunting

To me, if you’re a real killer, you can go out and fail and then maybe come back and succeed.

Ramsey Russell: What comes into play? Borrowing from your toolbox of having been a lot of times a solo hunter, going out and getting that full perspective in these different communities. How’s that helped you right here?

Nick Johnson: It’s helped me a lot in the sense that I know that I might fail. I think a guy can sometimes get his head swollen a little bit when he goes around his hometown. He hunts x fields hunts exactly where the birds are. He thinks he’s a killer. To me, if you’re a real killer, you can go out and fail and then maybe come back and succeed. You learn from your mistakes. So having those experiences of both failing, like traveling outside of my comfort zone failing, but then you get that burning like, I know how I’m going to do it next time. Then you go out there and succeed. So, you get used to this concept that you’re not the king of waterfowl hunting. You’re not God’s gift to waterfowl hunting. Look at old pictures of guys on a railway car with 200 ducks. All right. You ain’t the first one to be good at this.

Ramsey Russell: Right. Everybody’s a rock star on certain days.

Nick Johnson: And then one thing I’ve really liked about joining up with Ben and his crew is these guys bring a breadth of knowledge to the table. And I love before our hunt that we had yesterday morning. I was asking Dylan. I was asking Josh. I was asking, not Josh. I was asking Dylan and Jack and Ben. Josh isn’t with us until the fall. What would you guys do? How would you do it? I know I can fail and I know all of us at this table are killers. I want to know what you guys think. I want to know how you would do it. Would you do it this way? I was thinking like this. They say, yeah, do it like this or I would do it like that. And I like to take all of the information I can get from these guys who are born and bred killers out here and know that I’m not right all the time. I’ve proved it to myself enough that I’m not right 100% of the time and I love just the community that we have here amongst the guides. And I know you wanted to talk a little bit about that too.

Ramsey Russell: Well, right now, there are a lot of snow geese in Saskatchewan. They’re mostly just getting here. They’re piling in. But the first morning hunt with you was just a prime example of what’s going on. There’s Geese Galore. I mean, as we were driving out for the next 2 miles, there were geese. We set up on a huge feed. It’s just rife with tracks and goose crap everywhere. I didn’t see you tasting none ironically, so I should have known something was up that day. But they wouldn’t play. But they’d hit over here, then they’d roll and hit over here. And then we hit over here. And you got out and we moved a few decoys a little further away. And so, the decoys, the geese we did kill were because we got out and worked. I hunted with Dylan, same freaking thing, a couple of plays into the geese. They worked a little bit out. He got out, moved a section of decoys now they got in the kill hole. Same thing this morning. It takes watching and doing and reacting, not just sitting there and going with the flow, right? Yeah, it’s a game killer. But my question was, as a public land hunter, a freelance hunter, a passionate hunter like you are. Now you’re a guide and if somebody like myself that looks at a lot of people, goes to a lot of camps, and does this kind of stuff. One thing I noticed right off the bat is that everybody mentioned to include Ethan the scout. Everybody is glad to be here. As happy, as helpful, as hardworking. And you don’t see that a lot of outfits. You see guys start getting tired, start getting burned out, start getting grouchy. I’ve never seen that here.

Nick Johnson: And I think we got a great crew of guys here. And we got a group chat, a group text message thread. In the morning or the afternoon, whoever’s out hunting sends skunks off when you get your first bird. And then you got five replies. Hell, yeah, dude. Keep going, keep grinding or like, woohoo.

Ramsey Russell: We are play at a tank.

The Best Snow Goose Hunt in Canada

Sooner or later, it’s going to all tie together and you are going to run out of shells and you are going to be tired and you are going to be limited. 

Nick Johnson: Yeah. We wake up in the morning when everybody goes out to scout. There’s 4 or 5 text messages. Good luck, everybody. Drive safe out there. Find us some birds. We keep each other uplifted because that burnout and that exhaustion, don’t get me wrong, we’re all tired. Me, I just had two tough snow goose hunts in a row and I was beating myself up about it.

Ramsey Russell: But that snow goose hunt, buddy.

Nick Johnson: Yeah. And Ben says, get out of your head. It happens to everybody.

Ramsey Russell: That’s snow goose hunt.

Nick Johnson: I think we’re there for each other to just kind of lift each other to keep the spirits high because this is a tough job and it’s very demanding. We got a lot of guys here in camp and every single day we go out there and try to provide the best snow goose hunt that us as a team can possibly provide. There’s no shortcuts here. It’s a very intense work environment.

Ramsey Russell: You talk about that caliper measurements and the Internet is proliferate with a big measure of snow geese. But the reality is, it really ain’t. I mean, snow goose hunting is getting after it and then, bam.

Nick Johnson: Then it happens. That one day when it happens.

Ramsey Russell: That one day, this morning it happened. It happened for about 30 minutes and I was thinking my gosh, I’m going to be out of shells. And then it just turned off because the geese were whatever. But there briefly it was just bam, bam. It was almost chaotic. And you keep doing it, you keep chasing it, you keep putting yourself out there and keep working at it. Sooner or later, it’s going to all tie together and you are going to run out of shells and you are going to be tired and you are going to be limited. But that’s not really the whole metric, is it? I mean, it shouldn’t be. Take it if you can get it, but enjoy it for what it is.

Nick Johnson: Yeah. Especially with snow geese, which I’ve heard this before. This might be anecdotal, I don’t know if it’s scientific at all, but I’ll parrot it anyways. I’ve heard the average snow goose is 11 years old.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah.

Nick Johnson: That means they have seen it all. And there’s just sometimes you’re going to catch them on the right. Well, that’s what we live for as snow goose chasers really is that one time when you can catch them slipping and they do slip. We’ve seen it on the Internet. We’ve all seen those big piles of snow geese. That happens in spite of themselves. They get the weather conditions or they get a little bit complacent with the field that they’ve been feeding in for 5 days and they don’t expect somebody’s going to be out there that morning and you are. And then it happens and it happens big time. And that’s an addictive rush. I mean, that’s why guys will go out there and they’ll fail 10 times in a row and just keep putting in that work. Keep putting in that work, because maybe on that 11th hunt, that switch will flip and they’re going to be in them.

Ramsey Russell: That’s what good guys and outfitters do. They keep plowing ahead to keep a positive attitude. But on the slower hunts, to have the result out here in the kitchen area, in the dining room area, you’ve also got to be a people person.

Nick Johnson: Right.

Ramsey Russell: Every now and again, you don’t get a guy that spent too much money or money he didn’t really have to come do this trip of a lifetime and snow geese are just acting like snow geese. They’re not boom. Where they need to be yet or the weather, we hunted them. I mean, I think we had a three and a half mile an hour wind. They could go anywhere. They could do anything.

Nick Johnson: Yeah, we were hurting from that wind.

Ramsey Russell: Yeah, we were hurting for that wind. I think it really takes a great gift. A lot of people reach out to me sometimes saying, hey, I want to get in the guide business. I want to do this. And I’m like, yeah, good. I don’t think it’s cut out for everybody. I don’t think this is for everybody.

Nick Johnson: I’ve seen guys who are great killers that aren’t great guides.

Ramsey Russell: Because they’re not great people, people. Is that what you’re saying?

Nick Johnson: Pretty much. It’s just not in their wheelhouse to be in the hospitality side of things.

Ramsey Russell: Right. And it is a hospitality industry.

Nick Johnson: Right.

Ramsey Russell: That’s one thing. I think, just to sum it up, that’s one thing I really like about this particular lodge. It’s got an incredible atmosphere. When you walk in that door, take off your boots, you come in and I don’t know, it’s just an atmosphere that I think stands out. I think it just stands out. There’s a lot of great hunt lodges and I work with them and love them. And I’m not saying that, but it’s fun. It’s just an atmosphere. I can’t explain any different. It’s just a fun atmosphere.

Nick Johnson: Yeah. And there are a lot of great hunting lodges. And when you find one that you click with, that’s a good-

Ramsey Russell: Ain’t broke, don’t stick with it.

Nick Johnson: You’re going, man, I’m coming back here every year.

Favorite Goose Calls

And we ended up coming out with a pretty cool little goose call design. 

Ramsey Russell: Don’t fix it. That’s what I tried to say. Change up just a little bit. Talk about your goose call. You actually got a goose call?

Nick Johnson: I have a goose call. Actually, what ended up happening was I had an idea for a goose call and I’m friends with the guys. They helped me out at the game fair duck and goose calling contest, which I’ve been the chairman of for many years in Anoka, Minnesota. It’s a 6 day show. I help run all the contests there. And these guys, Pacific Calls, Trevor Austin.

Ramsey Russell: Heard him.

Nick Johnson: Trevor Austin, Alex Yerges. And they’re the co-owners of Pacific Calls. And, man, those guys are generous beyond belief. They’re always whatever you need. You need judges, you need prizes, come to us. We’re going to help you out. And so, over the couple years actually, we just kind of developed a friendship and a good camaraderie.

Ramsey Russell: Is that who you hunted with out on the Pacific Ocean?

Nick Johnson: No, that was with Brad Cochran, with Dave Smith decoys. Yeah, I got a good relationship with Dave Smith decoys too. And I had this wild idea for a goose call and I thought maybe it would be a good pairing for the goose tech app. And I called them up and I said, what do you think about this? They said, come out on these days. And basically, what happened was I flew out and I met them in Spokane, Washington and they let me treat their Duck and Goose call manufacturing facility as the Nick Johnson fantasy factory for like, two days. Entertaining my wildest idea. I can’t believe they let me do that. Honestly, they’re just like, what do you want to do? Let’s see what it is. Let’s see what we can come up with together. They had the guy designing a goose call on a computer right there with me. His name was Spencer Alex. He got up at 5, 6 o’clock in the morning, was coming in just to turn my ideas into reality. On the CNC machines, they’re letting me touch and fondle every little tool they got around there. It was just a blast. And we ended up coming out with a pretty cool little goose call design. Something that we were-

Ramsey Russell: What’s unique about it, what’s different about it?

Nick Johnson: So, what’s unique about it is that there’s no barrel and insert. What we just came up with was a straight tube of acrylic from front to back and the guts system go into an insert that’s made out of Delrin. So, one thing that is good about that is that I can tune every single goose call and I just ship Pacific Calls, the inserts. I just have one of those goose calls at my house. I’ll tune up 100 of those gut certs, and I’ll just ship it to them. They can just plug them right into a goose call that they manufacture at their facility. Every single one is tuned by me, which is cool. Another thing that’s kind of great about it is if your goose call ever goes out of tune or you-

Ramsey Russell: So, using that system, you hand tune everyone.

Free Goose Call Tuning!

Hey, send me your goose call. I tune it for free and I still do it to this day. 

Nick Johnson: I hand tune everyone and say, you have one and you tried to mess with it and now you messed it up. Well, just give me a shout and you’re going to get a gut cert in the mail that’s tuned. You just drop that down into that acrylic tube and it’s good to go. And another great thing that’s about it is it kind of prevents people from messing around with it. To a degree, people still do mess around with it. And I thought, I know that, who doesn’t love messing with their goose call guts? And I’ve been doing another thing. I’m a goose hunters advocate. I said that before. I’ve been doing this for years. I tune people’s goose calls for free. If you’re a goose hunter out there, contact me. If you got any goose call that you own that’s out of tune. I just tune people’s goose calls for free. All I do is just charge you $10.40 for the return shipping that’s on, I don’t know why I started doing it because I wanted to get really good at tuning goose calls. So, the only way to do that is to get a lot of goose calls and tune them. So, I advertise it. Hey, send me your goose call. I tune it for free and I still do it to this day. Anyways, I got really good at tuning goose calls and I thought that it would prevent people from monkeying with the guts. But one thing I underestimated was people’s passion and desire for messing with their goose call guts. It’s kind of a little bit of a controversial design, almost having that tube of acrylic that nobody can get their little hands into and monkey around with. So, I knew some people would hate it, some people would love it.

Ramsey Russell: You sent me two inserts. So, I just looked at it, kind of figured it out, tried to push one of them out. That’s the one that’s messed up. I got the other one back in there. Once you see it, it seated, boom.

Nick Johnson: Right? Yep. There’s a little ribbon there and it won’t fall out or anything like that. And Alex Yerges, he thought it was a really cool design. I had some traditional designs. Hell, we built so many goose calls. When I took over the Pacific Calls factory for a weekend, we built so many different versions and they all sounded really good to a degree and some lengths I like better. But Alex, he’s just a tool nerd. He just loves his tools. He loves his CNC machines. He loves designing something unique and cool. So, when I showed him that one piece idea I had, it was literally just like a napkin sketch and you could see his eyes kind of light up, like, oh, I think I can build this. And they did a great job. They were great to work with. I can’t say enough about the guys at Pacific Calls and working with them and my idea was actually to come out with my own Nick Johnson custom calls. But when they said, we’d like to incorporate, we’d like to incorporate this into our line, we’ll just call it to Nick Johnson Signature Series.

Ramsey Russell: And you get to work with people you like anyway.

Goose Tech App

Nick Johnson: Yeah, they are from a different market than I am. I’m from the Midwest. They’re from the west coast. It’s mutually beneficial. They can help advertise who Nick Johnson is. They throw a Goose Tech app card. Like, once you buy a goose call, they throw that in all the goose calls that they sell. And so, they’re helping me. I’m helped spreading the Pacific brand, which is an excellent duck and goose call brand. I’m help spreading that to the Midwest. I’m with them at Game fair for those 6 days in August every year and just kind of just telling people, like, on this podcast about the great experiences I’ve had working with these people and how motivated those guys are to actually come out with interesting and effective products, working on shows with them last year too. They had duck calls that they didn’t even have on their website. They were selling this duck call called the no name duck call. These guys are constantly messing around with their tools, building something cool, building something new and being proud of it, and it’s a cool company to work with.

Ramsey Russell: What is a Goose Tech app? Tech as that?

Nick Johnson: The Goose Tech app came out of, we talked a little bit about how I was doing these call lessons, those one on one call lessons. When I decided those first ones, I said didn’t go so good, and I thought, I need to get good at teaching people how to goose call. Well, then I ended up developing this whole system, and I was at a certain point, like, before the hunting season, I was doing these at my house, like, before the COVID pandemic hit. I was doing them at my house, I would have 3 hours a day of goose call lessons scheduled. So a guy would come into my house-

Ramsey Russell: Sound like piano lessons, but with a goose call.

Nick Johnson: Yeah. As he was leaving, another guy was coming in, and we were doing lessons like that. And all of a sudden, the goose call lesson went from something that was, like, pretty loosely structured and doing my best to help people out to something that was tightly structured and really helping people out. And I was like, oh my God, I think I got something here that is working. And it continues to get better because not only, the teacher and structure role is mutual. In these one on one lessons, I’m teaching them how to goose call. But you would think a guy, when they ask questions, they teach me how to instruct. So all of a sudden, a guy says, do you mean it’s something like this? And I go, oh my God, that’s genius. So the instructor pupil role is mutual on these lessons. So every time I’m doing one, I’m getting better and all of a sudden I get addicted. And then the COVID pandemic hits. And then I start doing these lessons virtually. And there was a point I was doing them. I was doing 3-4 hours a day. Just facetiming people doing lessons.

Ramsey Russell: What a great way to spend a pandemic, learning to be a better goose caller.

The Importance of Goose Calling in Hunting

If you want to become a better goose hunter, you want to kill more geese, you want to put yourself in front of more opportunities, goose calling is the number one way to do that.

Nick Johnson: And I tell you what, I had this whole storyboard. It was a 4ft tall, 8ft long piece of Styrofoam. And it was written out with my lesson. It looked like a script for a movie. Every time I learned something, I’d put it up there and I’d organize it where it should go. And I go, man, I got a product here. I got a product that’s helping people. I’m a hunter’s advocate. This is like my life’s work. Basically. I need something. I’m going. I started talking to DVD production companies because I’m old. I’m an older guy here. And people are saying, don’t do DVDs. I said, well, I need an app or something. And Barnie Calef, three-time world duck calling champion, he was emceeing the Bernie Boyle regional duck calling contest in Burlington, Iowa. And I think I had been eliminated from it. And I was sitting in the crowd, and he goes, everybody download my Duck Tech app. I Got a Duck Tech app, it costs $5. And I came up to him and I said, who did that app? Because I have something that needs to get put into it. He goes, there’s this company out of Idaho called the Got Game Tech. They’re fantastic to work with. They’ve got an elk calling, a turkey calling, a deer calling. I did their duck calling. They’re actually looking for somebody to do a goose calling app. And I go, Barnie put me into me. And low and behold, about two weeks later, I got a call. The guy said, hey, my name’s Taylor Tibbets. I’m with Got Game Tech, and I heard you’re the guy to talk to about goose calling instructional. I said, man, this meeting is fate that this happened. So that’s how the Goose Tech app came to be. A lot of people have found it extraordinarily helpful for taking their goose calling to the next level, which goose hunting and goose, if you want to become a better goose hunter, you want to kill more geese, you want to put yourself in front of more opportunities, goose calling is the number one way to do that. They’re such a more vocal species geese are than ducks. Ducks have a more quiet, more muted voice. They’re more visual. That’s why spinners work so good on ducks. There ain’t no spinner for goose. They’re not as visual. But I’ll tell you what, you can hear a goose honk from 2 miles away in the right wind. Their safety and their cues that they send to each other are more audio. Ducks are more of a visual species. That’s why goose calling is just so effective for geese. And I like to tell people, you want to get better at goose hunting, kill more geese. Goose calling, work on it. And it’s part of a multifaceted approach that every goose hunter needs to take. They need to get better at goose calling at all costs. That means buying lots of different goose calls. If it’s the Nick Johnson Signature Series buy one of those, buy a mollier buy a Tim Grounds, buy a Death Row Call. Find one that you even just like to look at and you think it’s cool, because that’s going to encourage you to practice on it more. Try out the Goose Tech app. Get yourself on YouTube. Look at all the YouTube videos. Scott Threinen has a great program on his theroosttv.com. All hands on deck. Learn how to blow that goose call at all costs. Get obsessed with it, and you’re going to kill more geese.

Ramsey Russell: Where’s your favorite place? I get asked this question a lot. Where’s the favorite place you’ve hunted in all your travels? Or a memorable hunt? And where, without putting a pin on a map, anybody can drive up to and compete with. But what are some of the things on your bucket list.

Nick Johnson: God dang it. That’s a good question. Bucket list. Like, would bucket list be a place that I have not done?

Ramsey Russell: Yeah.

Nick Johnson: I’d like to do some places that nobody thinks of, like West Virginia or South Carolina.

Ramsey Russell: I think they got Canada geese out there. I’m sure they do.

Nick Johnson: Yeah. And some of the most favorite places that I have hunted in the past are, I’ll just say somewhere around the Denver, Colorado area is a fantastic. Front range is great because you get a great mixture of species. One thing, I’ve hunted the front range twice and the thing I’ve noticed about goose hunting in the front range is you get the small geese, you get the big geese.

Ramsey Russell: And the middle geese.

Nick Johnson: The middle geese, big middles and little small mediums, larges. You get geese that are very intelligent. You get geese that are very dumb. You get mountains in the background. You get an all around good goose hunting experience. You might shoot a small one, a medium one, a large one. There’s going to be flocks that come by and say, ha, know your game. I’m not coming into that decoy spread. And then you just get the 10 pack that just gives it up right up front.

Ramsey Russell: Some of the guys listening may want to swap you some hunting in that kind of environment for some goose lessons. Nick, how can people get in touch with you?

Nick Johnson: Well, I’m easily accessible through social media. @nick_a_johnson is my Instagram. On Snapchat I’m njohnson2367. I like to post on Snapchat quite a bit like me and you are both into the scientific stuff, GPS stuff. I like to just kind of keep that updated with interesting waterfowl related content. That would be the two best ways to get a hold of me.

Ramsey Russell: Good deal. I appreciate you.

Nick Johnson: Hey, thank you so much for having me on your podcast. Like I said, I’m a big fan and this was a heck of a lot of fun having a discussion. I feel like we could go for another hour. I want to talk to you about blue winged teal.

The Best Goose Meat

The flavor is in the fat. 

Ramsey Russell: You know what you need to do? You need to come down south. Let’s go do some blue winged teal hunting. We’ll do one down there. But it gets dark at 10:00 the geese ain’t flying till 6:00. So instead of having a 10:00 or 11:00 dinner, I smell ginger goose cooking.

Nick Johnson: Yes. DJ’s got ginger.

Ramsey Russell: It’s unbelievable.

Nick Johnson: Best goose I’ve had in a long. These spring snow geese, too. They’re just delicious.

Ramsey Russell: My mouth starting to kind of water, it’s wafting under the door.

Nick Johnson: I can smell it too, actually.

Ramsey Russell: Speaking of which, you know, something I’ve noticed because there’s a lot of Canadian hunters come here as well as American. And that’s one thing I noticed is a lot of the, number one I love and I think that spring snow geese up here especially are the par excellent waterfowl out there. I just think it’s the best, especially if you’re going to breast. Best fillets out there, right here.

Nick Johnson: I agree.

Ramsey Russell: But I noticed the Canadians that come here, it’s a meat run, man. They want that. Every Canada hunter I know prioritizes that meat.

Nick Johnson: That is the thing I’ve ever noticed.

Ramsey Russell: And I’m not saying Americans don’t, but I’m saying it’s not as important to a lot of Americans as it is to a lot of Canadians.

Nick Johnson: Right.

Ramsey Russell: Isn’t that interesting?

Nick Johnson: I think that is kind of interesting. And also, you’ve probably covered this on your podcast, but the Canadians really made it a lot more friendly legal wise, for them.

Ramsey Russell: They did?

Nick Johnson: Yeah.

Ramsey Russell: They had modernization rules to make guys coming from BC and shooting snow geese and getting them back home just a little more easy to encourage that behavior.

Nick Johnson: So, if you’re not aware, like In Canada, you can actually breast your meat out and transport it without a wing attached legally.

Ramsey Russell: As long as it’s been processed. And they say that’s processed.

Nick Johnson: Yes. And once it’s frozen, I believe I might be stepping a little out of turn. I believe once it’s frozen, it doesn’t even count towards your possession. I’m correct when I say that?

Ramsey Russell: That’s right.

Nick Johnson: We really need to do stuff like that in the. And Delta Waterfowl, Ducks Unlimited, they all came out and they praised Canada for doing that. And I’ll praise them when this meat that we’re harvesting up here is fantastic. I won’t stand anybody talking crap about goose meat. Goose meat is some of the leanest, healthiest, most delicious meat. I get mine ground up, get a little bit of beef mixed into it. Heck, I don’t remember the last time we bought cow burger.

Ramsey Russell: The flavor is in the fat. And these snow geese we’ve been shooting this week, 15-20 yards high they are. And when they hit the ground, they split open. And when you touch them, it’s like grabbing somebody with a big, heavy sweatshirt on because they’ve just got all that fat and that skin so loose. It’s like, holy cow.

Nick Johnson: I think they’re preparing to make that jump to the Arctic. And when they get to the Arctic. There’s not going to be a lot of food up there for them for a couple of weeks.

Ramsey Russell: That’s right.

Nick Johnson: You got to pack it on while they’re here in the spring. You’ll find the fattest snow geese up here in the spring. Can I do an offshoot?

Ramsey Russell: Yeah.

Nick Johnson: Okay. Since we were talking about fat birds and then we were just talking about blue winged teals, I hunted blue winged teal in Louisiana in 2021. And talk about some of the fattest birds I’ve ever seen was I hunted their September 13, 2021. When we cleaned those birds, they looked like a late season honker or a spring. What’s up with that?

Ramsey Russell: They had hit them rice fields. They had hit them rice fields and gorge themselves.

Nick Johnson: I couldn’t believe how fat they were.

Ramsey Russell: Put on them fat reserves.

Nick Johnson: Might as well ask a southern guy here.

Ramsey Russell: I bet they were some of the early. What happens with the blue wings? I’ve talked about this a lot. You have your non breeders, predominantly males who are not been sitting on a nest. Your males, boom. And they may come down in mid August.

Nick Johnson: Yeah.

Ramsey Russell: And so now they’re sitting out in those rice fields eating fat and healthy before moving on. They may have been there almost a month eating that great nutrition rice.

Nick Johnson: Yeah, they were some of these. I mean, just like, in terms of, like body fat percentage and thickness of the fat layers. I mean, I actually gutted all of them and I roasted them. So, I did full bird plucked and roasted. And you would pull out the organs, and the organs would have this thick fat lake everywhere around them. I’m like, why would these blue winged teal hanging out on the Gulf Coast of Louisiana on September 13 be this fat?

Ramsey Russell: Yeah. Good habitat.

Nick Johnson: Now I know why those southern guys think those blue wings are such a delicacy. I don’t see blue wings like that in Minnesota.

Ramsey Russell: Folks, thank you all for listening to episode of Duck Season Somewhere. And heads up, don’t believe everything you see on the Internet, number one. And don’t taste goose shit. But if you do, holler back at me and Nick. Let us know how that goes. See you next time.